WASHINGTON (TND) — Dr.Jill Stein, who is a Green Party presidential candidate, has selected Professor Butch Ware as her vice-presidential running mate.
Butch Ware sounds like something I need an antivirus app to clean off my computer.
Unusual name, but probably not something we should be making fun of. Kinda lower than we should go, don’t ya think?
Wasn’t really making a political joke. Just anything-ware reminds me of bad computer stuff - malware,spyware, adware, ransomware…. I’m a geek with ADHD, it’s what I do 🤣
Fair enough! And like I said, it IS an unusual name for sure
How does she get to 270?
Can’t?
Oh then she’s a spoiler for trump to win then.
Simple as
Oh then she’s a spoiler for trump to win then.
Then maybe get a stronger Democrat candidate so you don’t have to worry about that person losing votes a third party.
Simple as
The spoiler effect is position based, not strength based.
I don’t care about a spoiler effect. At all.
I don’t vote “against” who I’m afraid of winning. I vote “for” who I’d like to win. Not based on odds. Or fear.
If a party is concerned, then they should get a more popular candidate.
I don’t care if you don’t care.
If a party is concerned, then they should get a more popular candidate.
The spoiler effect is position based, not popularity based.
The “spoiler” effect argument assumes votes belong to the two major parties, but in reality, votes are earned by candidates who align with voters’ values.
Supporting a third party challenges the status quo, pushing major parties to address issues they might otherwise ignore, and reflects the true diversity of voter priorities.
So no, I don’t care. And for someone who doesn’t care that I don’t care, you seem to be pushing it really hard. I’m not voting for your candidate. And I won’t stop posting articles to this community. Accept it.
The “spoiler” effect argument assumes votes belong to the two major parties, but in reality, votes are earned by candidates who align with voters’ values.
No, it doesn’t. The spoiler effect is about how the introduction of new candidates can change the outcome of an election, such that a previous winner loses because of the proximity of another candidate. Here is an example of it:
Total voters: 765 The winner was favorable to 56% of voters lachlan - 427 emma - 338
Total voters: 765 The winner was favorable to 44% of voters emma - 338 lachlan - 312 omalley - 115pushing major parties to address issues they might otherwise ignore
But that never happens. The two main parties always ignore everybody except for what their establishment wants for the most part. The DNC didn’t learn from it’s lesson in 2016, it’s not going to learn from it’s lesson in 2024. And the RNC is obviously even worse at learning lessons.
And for someone who doesn’t care that I don’t care, you seem to be pushing it really hard.
You’re not the one I am trying to convince here.
I’m not voting for your candidate. And I won’t stop posting articles to this community. Accept it.
I do not care. I’m only here to disprove you wrong about your claims about the spoiler effect. You are wrong both on a mathematical level and a practical level.
Thanks for this, this was super helpful to see in graph form. Quality post. Saving for later.
And you and I have already talked about this. We’re done talking about it. I don’t believe in it, and that’s my opinion. You are free to feel the way you want. So you have proven nothing to me.
And if you continue this conversation with me, I will block you. Again.
The Liberal myth of spoiler implies that if there were no 3rd party candidates, we would vote for your neoliberal POS candidates, surprise, we would not.
Spoilers are mathematical fact stemming from first past the post voting. I also want to be able to vote for a third party candidate but it goes against my interests to do so until the voting system changes.
The only way a spoiler is a myth if you weren’t going to vote at all.
I will vote, but it won’t be for MAGA or Blue Maga.
There is no blue maga. Lol.
You may not be aware of it. But it certainly does exist.
Maybe in dreams, but there is no “blue maga” in reality.
Only in dreams is there no BlueMAGA. Cult like obsession and devotion to political candidates and politicians.
How many votes do you think she’s likely to get in swing states, which are the only states that matter? Enough to spoil Harris? She’s not even on the ballot in Georgia. The point of Stein’s campaign is not to win or to be a spoiler. The point is messaging and putting pressure the Democratic party to move further left.
I get that this is a strong ticket on paper, but it’s really not the time for this.
Voting for Stein when somebody would’ve otherwise voted Harris basically just hands support to the voter’s least liked candidate.
It’s a well-known phenomenon, see the Spoiler Effect.
I get that this is a strong ticket on paper
Agreed.
And I’d say that the notion that a vote for a third party “dilutes” the vote is rooted in a fear-driven mentality rather than in democratic principles.
It assumes that votes are owned by the two major parties, which they are not. Our electoral system is supposed to represent the diverse views of the electorate, not just those of the dominant parties.
In the end, I personally refuse to be intimidated into voting against my conscience. Democracy thrives on diversity of thought.
If that’s how you feel, then why vote for a particular party at all?
Why not just write in whoever you most desire to be the president? There’s nothing against that, after all…
Voting is a fundamental American right, and every citizen has the right to vote for the candidate they believe in. The idea that supporting a third party is somehow working for Trump or any other major candidate is both historically inaccurate and logically flawed.
Throughout American history, third parties have played a crucial role in shaping political discourse and pushing important issues into the spotlight. The abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, and labor rights were all advanced by third parties before being adopted by the major parties.
By voting for Jill Stein and the Green Party, I’m supporting a platform that aligns with my values, particularly on issues like environmental sustainability, social justice, and democratic reform.
Okay, so to anyone who reads this exchange: I’m pretty sure this is a bot.
On top of it being a very botty response to my question, that didn’t even answer my question, they typed out three whole paragraphs with a thesis statement and conclusion, with some bold-face typing…in less than a minute. That’s fucking sketch.
But I’ll respond back at least once more:
Again, if you believe that the “electoral system is supposed to represent the diverse views of the electorate” and you don’t like voting “against your conscience”, then it seems like you value honest voting very highly.
But honest voting goes beyond parties. If you value voting honestly, then you should vote for the person you think is best suited for the presidency. It doesn’t have to be Jill Stein, it can be any of the other hundreds of millions of Americans, as a write-in.
What is your take on that?
Okay, so to anyone who reads this exchange: I’m pretty sure this is a bot.
How am I bot? Feel free to look at my past posts and conversations. lol
If you value voting honestly, then you should vote for the person you think is best suited for the presidency.
I 100 percent agree. And I think that Jill Stein is best suited for the presidency right now. Also, voting for someone who is officially on the ballot gives the party more recognition, influence, and potential access to resources and ballot access in future elections, which wouldn’t happen with a write-in vote that doesn’t carry the same weight or visibility.
Now having said that, if a good socialist candidate is allowed on my state ballot, I may switch over, depending on who it was.
But I really, really like Stein’s pick for VP. So far. I mean, if something comes out or it’s uncovered that he’s done something wrong, I could change my mind.
Also, just because someone goes against the mainstream grain about who they vote for, doesn’t make them a bot. Just saying…
How am I bot? Feel free to look at my past posts and conversations. lol
My bad, I didn’t know you just had a copy-pasted snippet. That snippet didn’t feel like it answered my question at all, hence my suspicion.
Also, just because someone goes against the mainstream grain about who the vote for, doesn’t make them a bot. Just saying…
Again, that suspicion had nothing to do with your apparent views, it was entirely because it didn’t feel like you were responding to my question at all - it was a long, well-written, yet generic, almost immediate response.
But I am sorry for sounding accusatory.
Also, voting for someone who is officially on the ballot gives the party more recognition, influence, and potential access to resources and ballot access in future elections, which wouldn’t happen with a write-in vote that doesn’t carry the same weight or visibility.
I do generally agree with this sentiment, so don’t get me wrong on that. However, I see this is a strategic/practical consideration in who to vote for. I don’t see it as a valid consideration in an honest vote.
My point is this: it sounds like you are a principled voter, but one who’s not blind to strategic or practical considerations. That’s how I feel as well, but I value the spoiler effect very highly in my strategic/practical consideration. Fighting the political science inches us both closer to our least preferred candidate getting elected.
I wish that your energy of “Consider voting for Jill Stein” was instead put towards “fight for electoral reform, so we can all honestly vote for candidates like Jill Stein without fear”.
But I am sorry for sounding accusatory.
No need to be sorry at all. I took your comment within the spirit it was given. I wasn’t offend or upset at all. You had your suspicion, voiced it, and I gave my response. All good, friend!
However, I see this is a strategic/practical consideration in who to vote for.
Well, for me, it’s the person I believe in the most and who aligns with my views. Jill Stein fills in those blanks. I don’t care about “spoiler” voting. I vote for who I want.
If the American people choose someone else as president, regardless of who that is, I’m fine with the decision. We’re a democracy.
Almost half of the American people aren’t gonna vote for Harris. That’s what part of democracy is. Our personal favorite side doesn’t always win. Regardless of the political spectrum.
I wish that your energy of “Consider voting for Jill Stein” was instead put towards “fight for electoral reform, so we can all honestly vote for candidates like Jill Stein without fear”.
I put it towards both. I 100 percent agree with and fight for electoral form. The thing is that the 2 main parties never want that at the time that they are the winning candidates and in office.
How many years have Democrats had a chance to change it? How many years have Republican had a chance to change it?
Neither party has, nor wants to.
They aren’t getting my vote.
Also, I don’t have “fear” of any political party.
Has the green party considered someone that doesn’t have the Russia stigma associated…
I don’t know. Ask them.
Russian stigma doesn’t bother me at all though.
That’s obvious
So I guess we’re done with this discussion then.
